The Bateleurs
Interview conducted May 19, 2021
By Dan Locke
The Bateleurs are a Blues/Rock band from Lisbon, Portugal; their debut Video EP “The Immanent Fire” was released digitally in October 2018. After a run of shows in their country, they’re wrapping up their debut album’s “The Sun in the Tenth House” production.
Band Members
Ricardo Dikk – Bass
Sandrine Orsini – Vocals
Rui Reis – Drums
Tell me about your band?
Ricardo-We are The Bateleurs, a Blues/Rock band formed in 2018. We’re from Portugal and we started playing together when I met Sandrine and we hooked up with some old friends of mine to do gigs in Rock clubs in our area. We started playing covers, but soon we realize that was something very cool and different going on, and in no time, we were writing original material. It was a very quick process because we believe in staying very true to the roots of our sound, and we always try to be very spontaneous and not overthink anything. We recorded and hit the road pretty fast, and everything was going extremely well until March 2020. Since then, we’ve been doing what we can and waiting for Covid to pass.
Describe your music.
R-We play 70s inspired Rock’n’Roll. Fans of Zeppelin, Purple and Black Crowes usually like our music. There are lots of other influences, some Soul and Jazz, Blues and R&B, we like to keep all options available when we’re creating.
What was your first performance at like?
R-The first time we played together was at a Rock Club in Lisbon, a small venue, and we played only covers of Zeppelin, Purple, Janis, Joe Cocker, and similar. From that day we felt we should be doing something more because the energy and vibe were unlike any other band we’ve played before.
Royalties never appear like magic. Royalties are only sent to you through work undertaken by a PRO to ensure that their members are getting paid. If you’re not yet signed up to a Performing Right Organization like ASCAP, BMI or SESAC, you may not be receiving all the royalties you deserve.
Do you belong to any to songwriters’ organizations like the International singer-songwriter association, SESAC, BMI or ASCAP?
R-We work with a digital distribution partner, and through them, we have our music registered with ASCAP. We’re also members of the Portuguese Society of Authors (SPA), and GDA, which collects mechanical rights for the Portuguese territory. We’re pretty much secured in that area.
What makes a good songwriter?
R-That is the kind of question that could have a million answers, or none…Writing songs is a skill that can be honed with practice, but some people have a natural talent for it. I think that the most important aspect is that you have to have a story to tell, be it a personal experience or a philosophical train of thought, people usually are more engaged when they can feel the purpose of the message, that’s what really resonates with them. Music is all about communication.
What was the title of your first original song? Did you record it?
R-We did bounce some riffs around it the beginning, but the first complete song we had was Lost My Faith, the first track of our debut EP.
What is the process of writing your music?
R-Usually it all begin with a riff. The coolest are always the spontaneous ones, the kind of you pick up the guitar and play the first thing you come up with, without really thinking about it. Then we develop it, build a chorus, a bridge, what feels more natural to the progression of the song. Then we make Sandrine ad-lib over it, trying melodies and hooks to see where we can make the song really strong. Only after that we work on lyrics. We try to figure out how the song makes us feel, and settle for a subject we want to talk about. Sometimes it’s more personal, others more insightful and philosophical, we don’t try to force it one way or the other, just go with the flow and do what feels right at the time. Again, we try not to overthink anything. Too much noodling around with ideas usually makes them go stale, and we always want to keep things fresh.
Tell me about the making to the video “Rise Above the Storm”?
R-We produced the video before the pandemic situation, so we didn’t have to deal with any restrictions. We believe that when you are a new band, you have to feature the musicians, for people to have someone real to relate to. We choose an amazing location (Cine Incrível) that was a movie theater converted to a concert venue and take advantage of the resident PA system and lighting rig. We hired a light tech to illuminate the set in real-time, creating dynamic light changes you can’t do in post-production, and the final result really satisfied us.
Produced, directed and edited by Pedro Salvado. I just show Pedro Salvado work with Cherry. How did you meet him?
R-Pedro is an old friend, we know each other for more than 10 years, worked with him on several projects. Besides, he is very into the aesthetics we love and is very creative and expert in many areas of video production, so we don’t have a slight doubt that he was the right man for the job.
Why Alexandre Manaia on the Hammond B-3?
R-He is another old friend, we’ve been playing together forever, he´s an amazing multi-instrumentist with one of the largest curriculums in our country, and it was our first choice to collaborate with the keyboards in the album.
How long before your upcoming album “Sun on the Tenth House” is released?
R-We are negotiating with a couple of labels to try to strike the best deal, but things aren’t moving as fast as we wish because of the pandemic situation. Labels are apprehensive in releasing new records if the band can’t play live to promote it, so everyone is kind of waiting to see how all this will turn out. Hopefully, we believe it’s possible to have it out later this year, between mid to late Fall.
How was it to at at Canoa Studios and Dynamix Studios?
R-Canoa Studios is our first option to record because of the enormous main room with beautiful acoustics, and the expertise of the chief engineer and owner Nelson Canoa. He’s always capable to craft exactly the sound we need, he’s very efficient and we can get a lot of work done in a very small amount of time. Dynamix Studios is a smaller facility but is very near our residences, and we did almost all guitars and vocals there. It also has an amazing collection of gear and an extremely competent engineer, Ricardo Fernandes, that was paramount in getting the tones we were looking for.
Your album was completed already. And you held it up for released until this year. Did you go back and relooked at any of the track?
R-We did a round of fixes in the mixes but didn’t re-record anything. We’ve recently recorded some more material we’ve written during lockdown because we feel that the record will benefit from that new ideas. The record is now longer than we first intended, but it’s definitely for the best.
What is your favorite track on your album?
R-We didn’t want to reveal much for now, but the song we’ve just released, Rise Above The Storm is definitely one of the strongest. The song we’re planning to use to promote the release of the album is called Revolution Blues, and I think that’s one of the best songs we’ve ever written, but you have to wait a couple more months before you listen to it.
What are you’re feeling about streaming music?
R-Despite the fact that is a very convenient way to share our music, the business model is totally wrong, and the creators are being stripped away of their earning. It’s a common issue in today’s world, transversal to various areas of creativity, and it’s a problem that’s not going to be solved anytime soon. Unfortunately, the way things are it’s very difficult to earn a living with recording music unless you are an artist of millions of streams.
The symbol # is known as the number sign, hash, pound sign and a sharp sign in music. The symbol has historically been used for a wide range of purposes Since 2007, widespread usage of the symbol to introduce metadata tags on social media platforms has led to such tags being known as “hashtags”, and from that, the symbol itself is sometimes called a hashtag.
Are people forgetting that the # is a part of music?
R-On the contrary, I feel that a lot of artists are focusing a lot on the hashtags and less on the music they’re making. It’s important to have a solid social media presence, but sometimes people spend way too much energy on Facebook and Instagram than in the studio, and the music suffers from it.
Digital vs. vinyl?
Sandrine Orsini-Nothing replaces the feeling of dropping the needle on a record, sit back and really enjoy music. Digital doesn’t come even close, vinyl feels like you are really immersed in the song, there’s nothing like it.
What song from the past is in your mind right now? Moreover, what is the meaning that song means to you?
S-One of my favorite songs of all time Is Since I’ve Been Loving you from Led Zeppelin. It’s slow Blues with all the weight that it carries, and the lyrics could easily be written these days. Some things never change, and the feeling of weariness and nonconformity in them is still very pertinent.
How was it to tour Spain right before the lockdown?
S-It was totally amazing! The Spanish crowd is extremely enthusiastic, and we’ve played in some very awesome venues always with good attendance. We were not expecting such an outcome because it was our first tour there, but our booking agency LeStrato Rock did an outstanding promotion, and our expectations were thoroughly surpassed. We’re eager to be back, hopefully before the end of the year.
If “Video Killed the Radio Star” do you think that the Covid-19 virus has killed live music? Do you feel the Covid-19 virus going to affect the music business in the future?
S-We hopes that we’ve passed the worst, and things are slowly coming back to normal. We expect to be touring full gas in 2022, and meanwhile, we’ll do what they let us.
What have you been doing with your self-quarantine?
S-We only had two periods of full lockdown, between March and May 2020, and January and March 2021. In those times we’ve written a lot of new music, and we tried to stay fit as much as possible, doing exercise. When we weren’t writing or exercising, books and Netflix was the way…
How do you stay healthy during the lockdown?
S-For sure! Personally, I’ve been aware of what I eat, trying to keep it as healthy as possible, and fortunately, we were always allowed to go outside for jogging. I live in a neighborhood that has a big wooded area, and I go out for a run almost every day.
Have you discovered or rediscovered any new hobbies?
S- I also started doing Yoga, which is terrific for the body, and also for the mind.
Many artists are doing nightly concerts over either YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. In October that is going to change at least on Facebook. Facebook is cracking down on livestreamed shows that include recorded music with new terms of service, preventing artists from using the platform for “commercial or non-personal” purposes, unless they have obtained the relevant licenses.
The updated music guidelines state that users “may not use videos on our products [which include Instagram] to create a music listening experience […] This will includes [Facebook] Live,” and stipulates that such content should be posted for the enjoyment of friends and family only.
How do you think this will change the landscape of Facebook?
S-If Facebook was useful in the near past, nowadays the newer algorithms have made it almost useless if you want to promote a new band. You have to invest a great amount of money in sponsoring content to have a minimum reach, and you suffer big penalties in exposure if you include links to your site or YouTube channel. Those new terms of service are just another nail on the coffin of a platform that has seen better days, and I foresee that in the near future something new will come up, it’s always like that with social media. We’ve been getting much better results engaging new fans on Instagram and Bandcamp, so Facebook it’s been necessary, but it ceased to be our main way to engage with people.
During the lockdown you did a few social distance live session on Youtube including “And I Am Telling You I’m Not Going”. Why did you pick that song?
S- We didn’t do nothing with The Bateleurs because we felt that the live stream format doesn’t really translate the kind of music we do. To do it right we’ll need enormous logistics, and it really doesn’t worth it. Instead, we hooked up with some friends and did some covers in remote recording, not live. That song is an old personal favorite of mine, and I always wanted to give it a try.
How can bands keep their fans if they cannot play live in front of the fans and sell merchandise to them at the show?
S-Until Covid passes, it’s extremely difficult. Bands can always make crowdfunding and live streams, but the engagement of the audience and the subsequent revenue is much less, especially for up-and-coming bands. Nothing can substitute a live show, that’s where people really become fans, buy the records and merch, and keep our boat floating. I figure that after Covid, we’ll have fewer professional bands.
Is pay to play still a thing? Now pay to play also means thinks like playlist on the internet and opening slots for a major band on tour.
R-It’s normal to buy a slot on a major tour usually is a combined investment made by the band, label, and manager. It can be a real turning point, and sometimes that is exactly what a band needs to take it to the next level. If everything goes well, you can recoup selling merch and records. Paying for playlisting is different because you can’t recover the investment. Even if you could get a couple hundred thousand streams, with the actual fees, that won’t cover the cost.
What about Holographic concerts in our living room?
S-That would be awesome, maybe one day…I will definitely say “Help me Master Kenobi, you are my only hope!”
The Portugal government lifted the noise ban for remote workers earlier this year. Did this help your band to start getting together to rehearse again?
R- Not really, we rehearse in the studio, and it’s well isolated and we’ve never had trouble with the neighbors.
Did you know that the Grammys MusicCares can help artist? The MusiCares COVID-19 Relief has helped thousands of music industry artists and professionals during these difficult days. This is the most recipients helped, for any single event, in MusiCares’ history. The need remains great, and these unique times remain critical for music people. It has taken a community uplifting one another to get through this pandemic, and MusiCares has pulled together a list of additional organizations and resources to further support you. https://www.grammy.com/musicares/get-help/relief-resources. Have you applied for it yet?
R-From what I know, MusicCares only operates in the US, Canada, and the UK. In other European countries, the local governments have the responsibility of supporting all areas of economic activity forced to stop because of Covid. In our country, these benefits are not nearly enough, and a lot of music employees are left out. The few that we have often come late, and we have many people in a difficult situation. As said before, probably a lot of bands will go out of business, as well as techs, managers, labels, and all the services that depend on live music to exist. Let’s hope that the worst of Covid has passed, and we can resume our normal work soon because if we are waiting for government relief, we are screwed. This industry was always self-sufficient, it’s very sad to be living off charity indefinitely.
In the past if a musician stop doing music, they find a new career. For example, David Lee Roth from Van Halen became a licensed EMT in NY for 6 years, San Spitz (guitarist for Anthrax) became a master watchmaker, Dee Snider (Twister Sister) voice over work for SpongeBob SquarePants. If you can’t do music, what would you like to be doing?
R-All my life I’ve been a musician, producer and sound engineer. I don’t really have any other skills or interests, so if I couldn’t do any of it, I would be completely lost. I want to believe I can do anything related to music until the very end, and I really hope this will be possible.
If a musical career were absolutely impossible in any way, probably I would sell everything I own and go to Africa to do humanitarian work. I was always fascinated with life outside first world commodities, and if I couldn’t pursue my passion anymore, I would be happy to help others with pressing issues of poverty and famine, so it’s volunteer humanitarian work for me.
What is your happy place?
R+S- A beach somewhere in South East Asia
Red Hot Chili Peppers are about to sell their entire song catalog for $140 Million. In the past year a lot of musicians such as Stevie Nicks ($100 Million), Bob Dylan (over $400 Million), Taylor Swift, Journey, Def Leppard, K.T. Tunstall, and Shakira have sold their catalog rights within the last year. Bob Dylan sold his entire catalog for a reported $300 million. Neil Young song 50 percent of his worldwide copyright and income interest in his 1,180-song catalogue to Hipnosis Songs Fund limited. Once you get to the age of about 70. Publishing is far more lucrative than the mechanical royalties paid to artist based on sales, airplay and streams. A good example of this is Michael Jackson brought the rights to the Beatles catalog in 1985. And in the late 80’s the Beatles Revolution appeared in a Nike commercial.
The lump sums being offered by publishing firms are more tax friendly concerning estate planning.
Do you think you would be willing to sale your back catalog if someone like Universal is will to buy everything, such as all the rights to all your songs?
R-On a year like this one, where all the revenue from the music industry suffered a drop and the future is uncertain, when you are on the final leg of your career and you’re offered a sum like that, I totally understand it. For younger artists, I think it’s a mistake because you don’t really know how far you can go, and the sums offered are way smaller, they’re not the kind of money you retire upon.
Spotify’s ‘Stream On’ event on (February 22), the company confirmed that more than 60,000 new tracks are now being ingested by its platform every single day. This means people are added new tracks uploaded to its platform every 1.4 seconds.
The figure, announced by Spotify’s co-Head of Music, Jeremy Erlich, means that across the course of this year, approximately 22 million tracks will be added to Spotify’s catalog. Spotify confirmed in November last year that its platform now played host to around 70 million tracks.
Therefore, it’s reasonable to assume that, by the end of 2021, SPOT will be home to over 90 million tracks. And that in the early part of next year, it will surpass a catalog of 100 million for the first time.
But still, back at the beginning of the year, Spotify deleted 750,00 songs, mostly from independent artists. What do you think that could mean to an independent artist?
R- I believe that Spotify is the main responsible for the devaluation of recorded music. By supply and demand rules, when you have too much of a certain commodity, its price drops. When you are encouraging artists to release music on a constant basis, telling them that an album every couple of years in not enough anymore, you are flooding the market with an enormous quantity of music, often meaningless and with poor artistic quality. People nowadays are expecting to listen to music completely for free, and if we can’t figure out another way of managing this, we will see music creation as we know it completely disappear. Professional musicians will be something of the past, and we’ll be left with some talented amateurs without the means to take their music to another level. It’s a bleak scenario, but it’s where we’re heading if we don’t take action quickly.
Sony Music in November and Warner Music Group in December, The ByteDance-owned video app revealed on (February 8) that it has struck an “expanded” global licensing agreement with Universal Music Group. Now that TikTok is now fully licensed by all three major record companies, will you start using TikTok more?
We will definitely not. TikTok is not where our target audience is, the kind of Rock we practice is more for people that still buy CDs and vinyl, not for the teenagers that are the bulk of TikTok users. We’ll keep our focus on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube and Bandcamp, that’s where our followers are and where we know we can reach them.
Did you hear that on May 1st, 400 people attend a test concert in Portugal. People attending the social distance open air concert underwent rapid antigen test upon arrival and had to were mask?
R-Yes, we did, and in other cities also. In Barcelona, they did one for 3000. Everything went extremely well and I think it’s a proven fact that concerts are not sources of contagion and it’s more than time to let us go back to work.
Danny Wimmer Presents just announced their 2021 Festival Calendar: Which includes the following live shows:
DWP Partners With Inkcarceration Music & Tattoo Festival For July 23-25 Event In Mansfield, OH
Louder Than Life Set For September 23-26 With Newly Added Thursday Night Celebration In Louisville, KY
Welcome To Rockville Expands To 4 Days And Shifts From Spring To November 11-14 In Daytona Beach, FL
Aftershock Set For October 7-10 In Sacramento, CA, Almost Sold Out
Would you be willing to play these shows and what precautions would you like to have in place?
R-We would be delighted to play those or any other shows. On outdoor venues, the risk is even lower, and I really believe that it’s possible to resume the festival season this summer, both in the US and Europe. Unfortunately, some of the biggest festivals here were postponed to 2022, but mainly because of travel restrictions and attendance limits. When you book a festival for 100.000 fans with world-class bands, you cannot make it profitable with 50% attendance. But the smaller festivals with local mid-tier bands are totally possible. We would play anywhere they want us, respect all security and health guidelines imposed, be it attendance limits, mask-wearing, curfew times. We just want to get out and play again.
Anything you would like to say in closing.
R+S- Thank you for having us at UnRated, it was a pleasure to talk about all these issues. Thanks to everybody who’ll read this, keep up supporting the bands you love, especially the new ones, music needs fans more than ever.
