Ryan Orr
Interview conducted October 20, 2022
By Dan Locke
Ryan David Orr is a multi-instrumentalist and songwriter
What is your upbringing?
I was born in Ashland, Oregon, and I grew up moving between Oregon and California for many years. My parents, who were both artists in their own right, split up when I was 2 years old, so I did a lot of traveling between their homes and moved schools dozens of times. My mother was a singer songwriter, so there were always guitars lying around, and my father was a visual artist, so I had exposure to that realm as well. When I was about 13, my mother and step father moved us to Tennessee, and I spent the rest of my formative years there and in North Carolina.
How did you discover music?
My mother got me into playing violin when I was about 7 years old. I played that for around 5 years before switching to guitar and trying to play music like the angsty rockers I heard emerging from the Seattle grunge scene. Then I was just hooked on ingesting as much as I could find. Too bad streaming wasn’t a thing back then:)
How did you start to write music?
I lived a lot of my young life in Oregon, and the northwest was a great spot for grunge rock. I got heavy into that as a teenager and learned to play very simple chord progressions very loud. That inspired me to try writing, and at first I mostly emulated the things I liked the most (Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Nirvana, Screaming Trees). It took a couple years, but eventually I wrote something that I genuinely liked as a song. Then I was just hooked.
Describe your music.
I usually tell people that I play indie-folk and indie-rock. It’s a lot of organic textures, acoustic guitars, live drums and percussion, strings, layered vocals, things like that. Sometimes I write heavier rock, or electro-pop type stuff, but my main focus is in the indie-folk/Americana realm. It’s definitely a thinking person’s music. What I mean is that there is a major emphasis on lyrics and storytelling, so there are a lot of lyrics and often a strong narrative. Honestly, I think that can be something that hurts an artist commercially, but that’s the type of writing that really draws me in.
What was your first performance like?
Well, my “first” performance came years before I had my first performance playing original music. I was in a few choirs that performed at large venues, and once I was a choir boy in a production of the Italian opera Tosca that ran for a number of weeks at the Angus Bowmer theatre in Ashland, Oregon. In fact, back then I never really thought I would want to perform original music. But my first performance of my original music came when I was in high school. I opened for a friend’s band. It was pretty amazing. I think a lot of high school shows are like that – it’s the biggest thing we had seen with our music, so it was very formative. I wasn’t nervous, but I’m sure I was melodramatic:)
Royalties never appear like magic. Royalties are only sent to you through work undertaken by a PRO to ensure that their members are getting paid. If you’re not yet signed up to a Performing Right Organization like ASCAP, BMI or SESAC, you may not be receiving all the royalties you deserve.
Do you belong to any songwriters’ organizations like the International singer-songwriter association, SESAC, BMI or ASCAP ?
Yes, I am an ASCAP member. Since about 2004.
What makes a good songwriter?
I think what makes a good songwriter (or at least what works for me) is the ability to also be a good producer. It’s the producer’s job to step back and observe in a very unattached way. If a songwriter can do that, then they can review their own music like an audience member. Honest objectivity can be a game changer.
What was the title of your first original song? Did you record it?
It was called Dimitri’s Loneliness. I did not record it, and I’m probably glad I didn’t. It was about a kid at school. And it was about as basic a chord progression as you could manage:)
What is the process of writing your music?
It usually starts with the music. I find some riff, or progression I really like, then I start to mumble over it. Eventually the mumbles become phonetic pieces and then words. It’s a sort of free-association process that also involves finding an enjoyable, interesting melody.
Tell me about your upcoming album?
The new album, which is called New Imperials, is a mix of indie rock and indie folk. It is very lyrically driven, as most of my music is, and it deals with the subject of people trying to control their own universes. I think we often see people battling things in their own lives like normative culture, feelings of insignificance, identity, or their relationship to the natural world. Just as often, they/we try to exert some form of power over it all to make ourselves feel better, and sometimes that endeavor causes more problems than solutions.
You have submitted to NPR Tiny Desk concert. A few times. What type of reply have you gotten back from NPR?
It has been okay submitting to the contest, but it is usually a means of possibly getting more people to hear my music. The best response I got was the very first year. They reposted my video on their blog and it got about 3,000 views from that. Once it got more popular, it was harder to get noticed, just like most music or video platforms.
How was it headlining the White Mountain Musicians Festival this Summer?
That was a fun experience. My whole band had a good time. The performance had to be under cover because it started to rain and storm really heavily, but that’s how outdoor festivals go sometimes. But the crowd response was great and none of us got struck by lightning:)
What are you feeling about streaming music?
It’s grown on me as a concept. I think I had that same disillusioned response that many people of my age and in the music industry had, which is that it’s ruining music as an art form. The saddest thing to me is the loss of that magical adolescent activity of browsing record store bins. But it’s also connected people with more music than they could ever possibly listen to for pretty cheap, and that can be a good thing. So I tend to like it now. But I still only listen to vinyl inside my house. Just sayin’.
The symbol # is known as the number sign, hash, pound sign and a sharp sign in music. The symbol has historically been used for a wide range of purposes Since 2007, widespread usage of the symbol to introduce metadata tags on social media platforms has led to such tags being known as “hashtags”, and from that, the symbol itself is sometimes called a hashtag.
Are people forgetting that the # is a part of music?
No, I don’t think so. There are loads of talented musicians out there that did at least some classical training at some point. And if you had that exposure, the sharp sign will always be a sharp sign. Sure, there are “musicians” who never studied anything in music and built their songs out of digital legos, but still, I think a lot of people associate the symbol with music.
Digital vs. vinyl?
Vinyl. And not just because I’m “supposed” to say that. What I like about vinyl, aside from the warm sound (which is what everyone always talks about), is the fact that it is a very tactile, intimate medium. You have to treat it carefully, there is balance involved, you have to manually start it and flip it halfway through. You have to be engaged. When you add the fact that the artwork is huge and the whole presentation makes it like a deliberate work of art, it’s a clear winner.
What song from the past is in your mind right now? Moreover, what is the meaning that song means to you?
Well, when I was answering the earlier question by talking about grunge rock, I started thinking about grunge bands, and then I got to Alice in Chains. Then I thought of that scene in Singles when they’re in the rock club and AIC is on stage ripping “Them Bones” and Layne Staley is whipping his hair around. That song is so heavy and wicked, and that crunchy 7/8 riff is the perfect canvas on which for Staley to layer his whiny yelp. It’s a nostalgic feeling when I see that scene and hear that song, like band practice at John’s house senior year.
If “Video Killed the Radio Star” do you think that the Covid-19 virus has killed live music? Do you feel the Covid-19 virus is going to affect the music business in the future?
I think Covid-19 has affected everything. Most of our major institutions (business, media, schools, etc.) are now different than they were, and they probably aren’t going back. That said, I think it certainly affected live music, but the changes seen there are different. I noticed a surge in people going to shows as soon as they could, going out and looking for entertainment more readily.
Do you think that Covid-19 has been a plus to an artist career?
Yes and no. Numerous artists had to cancel tours, shows, and public appearances. For a couple years, live music was off the table. But at the same time, it seems most artists stayed at home and wrote music, so we all emerged from the pandemic with albums worth of material to show for it. I think it really made us stop and think about our lives and careers, and take stock of both music related issues and personal issues.
What have you been doing with your self-quarantine?
My musical time has largely been spent writing and recording. I have a studio at home, so I was able to make constant use of that. I also did a lot of hiking and gardening. I live in a rural area and I love outdoor activities, so it wasn’t hard to keep myself occupied.
How do you stay healthy during the lockdown?
Lots of walks, bike rides, yoga, hiking. Really, it’s not hard to stay healthy if you use your alone time in quality ways.
Any new hobbies
My interest in cooking has increased quite a bit. I have always cooked, but since the pandemic, I cook almost every night at home.
Recently the virus has come back with the Delta outbreak, then you Omicron, which has caused many people in the industry to worry about the future of live music.
How would you like live shows to be held and still keep you and fans safe.
Outdoor venues are a good way around this issue. Also, if people get vaccinated and take any symptoms seriously, I think we have a good chance of staying safe.
Is pay to play still a thing? Now pay to play also means thinking like a playlist on the internet and opening slots for a major band on tour.
Yeah, I guess it’s still a thing. I have done many shows like this. Some are good investments, others are not. I think as long as people like money, there will be opportunities to pay them for playing.
The show Star Trek introduced people to the holodeck: an immersive, realistic 3D holographic projection of a complete environment that you could interact with.
Today holograms are already being used in a variety of way, such as medical systems, education, art, security and defense
Performers like Tupac, Michael Jackson, Roy Orbison, Frank Zappa, Elvis Presley, Amy Winehouse, Buddy Holly, Ronnie James Dio, Marylin Monroe, and Whitney Houston have done it already. The band ABBA just announced that they will be doing a comeback together after nearly 40 years as holograms on their next tour. With ABBA it was with the help of George Lucas .
If the cost was down to the point you could do it also, would you be willing to do Holographic concerts in our living room?
Ha! Yeah, sure. I love that idea. To me, this is not a replacement for actual live music, but it’s a different, sort of novelty idea that could be really fun.
What is your happy place.
I have many of them. But off the top of my head, being in my kitchen, cooking some sort of elaborate meal, sipping wine or a cocktail, while my wife sits at the table knitting and playing podcasts – that’s one of my happiest places.
Red Hot Chili Peppers are about to sell their entire song catalog for $140 Million. In the past year a lot of musicians such as Stevie Nicks ($100 Million) , Bob Dylan (over $400 Million), Taylor Swift, Journey, Def Leppard, K.T. Tunstall, John Legend, ZZ Top and Shakira have sold their catalog rights within the last year. Bob Dylan sold his entire catalog for a reported $300 million. Neil Young song 50 percent of his worldwide copyright and income interest in his 1,180 song catalogue to Hipnosis Songs Fund limited . Once you get to the age of about 70. Publishing is far more lucrative then the mechanical royalties paid to artist based on sales, airplay and streams. A good example of this is Michael Jackson brought the rights to the Beatles catalog in 1985. And in the late 80’s the Beatles Revolution appeared in a Nike commercial.
The lump sums being offering by publishing firms are more tax friendly concerning estate planning.
On January 19, 2021 Hipgnosis Song Management acquired 80% of Kenny Chesney’s recorded music royalties, covering the country superstar’s discography from his 1994 debut In My Wildest Dreams through 2017’s Live in No Shoes Nation.
Someone who was totally against selling his rights was David Crosby. He did not want to sell his publishing rights. In addition, it was not an easy thing for him to do. However, by making a deal with Irving Azoff’s Iconic Artists Group, it took a big weight off his shoulders. He could pay off his house and cover other bills. Now he does not have to work for a living. It should be noted that David is battling tendinitis in his hands, which hurts his ability to play guitar.
Do you think you would be willing to sell your back catalog if someone like Universal is willing to buy everything, such as all the rights to all your songs?
Yeah, I probably would. I make music I like to hear, and my hope is that other people like to listen to it. So if there was a way to both make money and let a label get my music to the people, then sure, makes sense.
Spotify reports that in 2021 there are about 8 million artists on the platform. Of those 8 million artists, about 57,000 are raking in a whopping 90% of the total revenue from streams. That means that .71% of the artists on Spotify are making good money. In 2020, there was a total of around $5 billion paid out to artists on the Spotify platform alone.
Therefore it’s reasonable to assume that, by the end of 2021, SPOT will be home to over 90 million tracks. And that in the early part of next year, it will surpass a catalog of 100 million for the first time.
What do you think that could mean to independent artists?
It’s hard to say. It’s good that there are platforms that make listening to music easier, but it’s still pretty hard to make real money from streaming platforms. In addition, platforms like Spotify have worked with major labels to promote artists, just like labels used to do with radio. So, if you’re an independent artist who has the privilege of being on an “indie” label that’s a major label subsidiary, then it’s probably good for you. If you’re an independent artist who attempts to cover all the bases yourself, it may not mean much in the way of income. If we’re thinking about this in terms of the fact that less than 1% of Spotify artists make the vast majority of the income, then that also means that over 99% of them are not making very much. However, it makes music more accessible to the masses, so it’s a trade off.
Over half a billion active users around the world share their favorite music on TikTok either with something like a dance challenge and lip-sync videos or creating a funny skit or candid camera moment.
TikTok has become a great platform for music promotion, sharing songs, and finding new listeners. In which it has become a place for music artists to earn revenue when people use their music. In many cases the daily promotion on TikTok has led to huge boosts on other platforms like Spotify, Facebook and YouTube.
TikTok algorithmically generates a feed of content for each user, which you see as the displaying of #. The more a user engages with content, the smarter TikTok gets at guessing what kind of videos the viewer wants to watch.
Because a song can go viral because of this.
Sony Music and Warner Music Group- , The ByteDance-owned video app revealed that it has struck an “expanded” global licensing agreement with Universal Music Group. Now that TikTok is now fully licensed by all three major record companies, will you start using TikTok more?
Yes, I probably will. I have a love/hate relationship with social media in general because I think it starts to be a substitute for actually living life, but it’s necessary if you want to have anyone see or hear your art.
Breaking news: TikTok is launching TikTok Radio, a full-time SiriusXM music channel going live this summer.The station will be available in vehicles and as a streaming channel on the SiriusXM App, desktop, and all connected devices.
Some of the people on TikTok include Cassyette, YukoEXE, Ashinikko, Palaye Royale, Josh Dun (Twenty One Pilots), Yungblud, Morrissey, Ozzy Osbourne, Joan Jett, Gene Simmons, and Mick Jagger.
The station will be part of a new TikTok collaboration with SiriusXM and its subsidiary,Pandora, to jointly promote emerging talent. Do you think this platform could become a force in the future of streaming music?
Yeah, possibly. There have been many attempts at things like that in the past, and some work and some don’t. But at this point, it seems like this idea would be a good collaboration between already successful artists and platforms, so that could be a win-win.
Anything you would like to say in closing.
Thank you for taking the time to interview me. I am currently promoting my new album NEW IMPERIALS and the latest single from this record is called “Juvenile”, which is listenable on all streaming platforms including Spotify and Apple Music
