Lisa Mann
Inerview conducted on May 04, 2020
by Dan Locke
Lisa Mann made a career as an award winning blues artist, but never lost her love of metal music. Growing up in the mosh pits of the 1980’s, she was inspired by bands such as Iron Maiden, Mercyful Fate, Black Sabbath, Manowar, Dio and more. A mostly one-woman project, White Crone is a love letter to this grand era of metal, and a lyrical homage to mystical storytelling traditions of yore.
Then White Crone’s The Poisoner delivers Traditional Heavy Metal, with traces of prog, proto & black. Soaring Dio-esque female vocals, epic dual guitars, thunderous drums & (most especially) iron fisted bass guitar, The Poisoner will take you “back to the day”
Band Members
The Poisoner credits:
-Lisa Mann- 6 & 8 string basses,6 & 7 string guitars, & vocals
-Larry London- drums (except “Under Hag Stones”
-Mehdi Farjami- additional rhythm guitars & lead guitar “The Dream of Tiamat” & “The Seven Gates of Hell”
-Vinny Appice- drums “Under Hag Stones”
-Caton Lyles- percussion “Broken”
-Kevin Hahn- various pick scrapes and barre chords
Dan Locke: You are from West Virginia, tell me about your upbringing?
Lisa Mann: I was born in Charleston and spent my early childhood years there. My grandmother was a subsistence farmer out in the hills, but by my generation, we lived a somewhat middle-class lifestyle. My parents broke up, and I moved to Oregon with my mother and sister in my early teens.
How did you discover music?
My parents weren’t hippies, but they were “hippie adjacent.” They had records from early hard and acid rock bands like Deep Purple, Iron Butterfly, Cream, Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin. I especially loved Deep Purple’s Machine Head! Heavy driving bass lines from Roger Glover. Space Truckin was the first song I ever learned how to play; I figured the bass line out on my mom’s old acoustic guitar. I also loved Jack Bruce, Geezer Butler and John Paul Jones, and learned their bass lines too. Later I became a huge KISS fan- I had posters all over my walls! I thought Gene was so cool- he could breathe fire and fly, and of course, he played the bass.
How did you start to write music?
I played in cover bands for a long time before I started writing my own music. It was in the mid-2000’s, and I released my first album in 2006. It was a mish-mash of all kinds of styles- rock, blues, country. It was a mess! But I started learning through the process.
Why do you call Portland, your home now? What took you to the great Northwest? And why not Seattle?
Actually, I did live in Seattle for some time, in the 90’s. I was in the Top 40 hard rock circuit, not the grunge scene, but we bumped elbows with some of those bands from time to time. I was in a band with my ex-husband (and still good friend) Dave, and two brothers from Alaska that were formerly in Pandemonium. We were on the same circuit as Quiet Riot for a while. I moved back to Portland though in the late 90’s and started working in the blues scene, which is very strong in Portland. Some of the best blues musicians in the world could be seen at nightclubs in Portland every night of the week.
Do you remember how you got your first bass?
I bought my first bass in Charleston WV when I was 11-12 years old. At that time, my mom had moved away to Oregon to make a nest for my sister and I. While we were with my dad, we were kind of “free range” kids. I saw it in a pawn shop while wandering around downtown one day when I was 11- it was a copy of the Hofner bass Paul McCartney played. I already knew I wanted to be a bass player. I put ten bucks down on it, and then walked home from school every day and saved my lunch money to pay it off. I was malnourished! I would just eat a can of beans or some toast. But I would do whatever it took to have that bass. My grandfather paid the last bit off that summer. It cost $237.25.
And do you still have it?
Yes, indeed I do.
What was your first jazz performance like?
(note- I’m assuming you mean blues? I can’t play jazz for the life of me!)
When I moved back to Portland from Seattle, I had all these rock and metal chops. If you wanted to work as a full-time musician in Portland, though, you had to be able to play the blues. It was like a revelation, because as I learned the songs, all those old bass lines I had learned from Cream, Sabbath and Led Zep came back to me- I could use those lines in the blues because that’s where they stole them from in the first place! It wasn’t quite right, and I didn’t quite fit in at first, but I fell in love with the music and the artists, and that became my home.
You have shared the stage with the likes of Paul Delay, Lloyd Jones, Duffy Bishop and Sonny “Smokin” Hess. Did you learn anything from them about the music business, which you would like to share with the readers?
I learned a lot, like show up on time! Well, seriously, I got to observe all these great bandleaders and learn how to be one myself. The main thing to know is that you have to be able to multi-task. You have to deal with the club owners, booking agents, sound crew, merch people, bartenders and the like, as well as fans who may be a bit inebriated. And you have to direct the music from the bandstand, come up with the setlist, make sure everybody’s got everything they need on stage etc. I usually work without a written setlist, or I write one and start ignoring it about halfway through. While I am singing and playing, and cueing the band for solos, I am also watching the clock, deciding what song to play next, and watching the crowd to see what I think they might respond to. It’s a juggling act, but if you gig enough, it all becomes second nature.
Who are some of the people you would like to jam with that you have not had the chance to share the stage with yet?
Too many to count! And I’ve been lucky to jam with some of the greats. What comes to the top of my head, I just saw Grammy Award winner Larry Mitchell performing in a live stream. He is an absolute freak of nature on guitar, like Stevie Ray Vaughan meets Joe Satriani meets Prince. He would be a blast to jam with!
Since you are from West Virginia, have you looked into NPR Mountain Stage? This would be a really cool thing for you, I think?
Oddly enough, I used to spend a lot of time at the Cultural Center as a child, my father worked at the capitol building nearby. My parents would take us to music events there. My sister and I used to drop BB’s off the balcony, and laugh at people looking around to see what hit them! I haven’t been back to WV, but it is a legendary broadcast, and it would be a dream to be a part of it at some point.
How did start your metal project White Crowe?
(I’m assuming you meant White Crone, with an N? No worries!)
I’ll give you a little back story. When I was 12, someone gave me a copy of Iron Maiden- Killers. It was a game changer. I fell in love with heavy metal and hard rock, and bass players like Steve Harris, Bob Daisley, Geddy Lee, Timi Hansen, and David Ellefson became my bass heroes. I also loved to sing along with my Maiden records, as well as Dio, Judas Priest, and Mercyful Fate (much to my mother’s chagrin!). I loved thrash metal too, and spent every weekend at local all ages clubs in the mosh pit. At 16 I helped form a band called Dead Conspiracy, we did four gigs at an infamous dive called The Satyricon. So metal was in my blood and bones.
Though I had always wanted to write and record a metal album, I never quite had the impetus to really pull it off until I first heard the band Ghost. I heard the song “Cirice” during the Grammy process, and I was hooked. They were so weird, and so retro. And 100% ZFG, Tobias Forge does not care what you think, he writes what he wants. Not long after, I started hearing melodies and riffs in my head, and I would sing or play them into my phone. Pretty soon I had enough pieces to write whole songs, and I started doing pre-production with home recording software. After years of being an independent recording artist, I was ready and able to create an original metal album. I bought a seven string Schecter guitar and taught myself how to play it. I also bought Roland V-Drums so I could play all the parts I was writing. In the end I hired a real drummer (that was a hill too high!) named Larry London. He’s a renowned drum instructor. I also hired Vinny Appice for a song, he had recorded a song for me previously on a blues album. I also had a guest guitarist to do solos on two songs, Mehdi Farjami, formerly of Glacier, and a percussionist named Caton Lyles to fill out a mysterious middle eastern sounding track. I recorded it at Opal Studio in Portland, with engineer Kevin Hahn. He has been doing my blues albums, but he’s got a metal background too. So, it all came together!
How the band did gets its name?
I was originally going to call the project 18 Rabbit, after my favorite song on the record, but the name was taken. I considered being anonymous (like Ghost) but decided to take ownership. I wanted a name that was about the “alter ego” who sings these mystical songs… a village wise woman of sorts, a storyteller. I’m very pale skinned, and I’m not exactly young, so I thought of the name “White Crone,” crone being a name for an old woman. I google searched, and the name wasn’t taken, so voila!
Any reason why you entitled the cd The Poisoner?
After playing the songs for family and friends, it became apparent that the song “The Poisoner” was kind of the single for the record. I named the album after that track, and invested in a full production video, filmed by Cypress Jones. You can find that on my YouTube channel, it’s actually pretty funny. My stepdad gets poisoned in it and hams it up playing dead!
You taught yourself how to play guitar by watching YouTube videos. So, you can say that someone can actually learn how to play guitar by YouTube. Who do you feel was your best teacher?
I can’t recall too many of them, I looked at a lot of random tutorials for rhythm guitar especially. I learned to play some of my favorite Iron Maiden and Judas Priest songs. But for learning solos, I found a guy named Chris Zoupa. He’s slow and patient enough to follow, and he features my favorite soloists, like Glenn Tipton. Just his tutorial of “Beyond the Realms of Death” alone took me light years ahead in the lead guitar department! For me, learning has never been about exercises and scales. It’s always been about imitation. So, I just copied as many solos and rhythm parts as I felt I needed to get a grasp of what I needed to do, and used that knowledge to make real what I was hearing in my head.
How was to work with Vinny Appice? Did he have any stories about Ozzy to share?
Actually, I never worked with Vinny except remotely. He lives in Southern California and has a great home studio. Kevin Hahn at Opal is very meticulous about drum mic’ing, and he was impressed with the quality of Vinny’s files. Vinny even added a few room mics that we blended in. My favorite this time was the “bathroom mic”- he stuck a 57 in a toilet paper tube and put it on the floor of a small bathroom adjacent to his studio. We blended that in to the sound of “Under Hag Stones,” a sludgy doom track, to add ambiance. It’s a song about an ancient zombie curse, and in it you can hear me making zombie sounds, and some of Vinny Appice’s bathroom. This makes me snicker every time I hear it.
Is White Crowe the thing that your jazz fans would enjoy?
(edit: Is White Crone the thing that your blues fans would enjoy?)
Many blues fans do love rock and metal, so a lot of them snapped it up. I know a few blues artists who have backgrounds in metal like myself, including Alastair Greene and JP Soars, and the guitarist (Jason Thomas) and drummer (Dave Melyan) in my touring blues band love metal as well. But even some blues fans who aren’t so keen on heavy music say they like it. I don’t mind screaming or cookie monster vocals, but I don’t do anything like that. My voice is operatic and theatrical, so that’s what non-metal people seem to like most about it.
How do you stay healthy while touring?
It’s been so much easier in recent years, because healthy foods are available in more places. It used to be all you could find at a truck stop was old hot dogs spinning around, but now you can find yogurt, fruit, veggie trays, etc. Plus, I pack a lot of my own snacks. I also do calisthenics and yoga moves in hotel rooms.
What is your favorite track on the album?
I love them all, they’re like my babies, but I am very proud of “18 Rabbit.” A few years ago, I saw a documentary about an 8th century Mayan King- the archaeologists mis-named him 18 Rabbit, but the name stuck. He was a patron of the arts, and seems to have been a peaceful ruler. Under his reign, incredible statues and magnificent temples were built, which were rediscovered in Copan in 1843. He has a tragic tale befitting an epic 7-minute metal song. Rival tribes abducted him and chopped off his head, sadly ending his peaceful rule. When I was watching that documentary, I knew I would eventually write a song honoring him, and all patrons of the arts.
What are you’re feeling about the Me 2 Movement?
When I was in my twenties and traveling the Top 40 circuit in the Pacific Northwest, I was often harassed and groped by club owners. I just sucked it up and took it, because I didn’t want the band to get fired. It’s the kind of crap we women just put up with. So, I’m glad the movement became strong, and people like Harvey Weinstein got what he had coming to him. But I do feel that sometimes the pendulum has swung too far. I’m a guy’s gal, and I have spent many many hours in clubs and in vans with guys. I wish many women wouldn’t take some raunchy jokes too seriously, for instance. If the boy’s dish it out, dish it right back at them!
What are you’re feeling about streaming music?
At this point it really doesn’t matter how I feel, it just is the new reality. In some ways, as the digital environment has matured, it’s been beneficial to me, as a blues artist at least. If you can get your songs on some popular playlists, you don’t have to invest anything extra into it, and you’ll see some mailbox money. I do wish the CEOs and shareholders got less than the actual music creators are getting. Without us, they would have no content!
Digital vs. vinyl?
To be honest, compact disc. It’s the best sounding format, has full range of bass reproduction, and you can listen to an entire album front to back without flipping it over or without breaks between intros and songs.
Any plans to tour?
Not with White Crone at this point, because I am basically the band. I have joined a killer existing band as their lead singer and hope to tour some with them, once we can do so safely. Keep your eyes peeled for Splintered Throne- we are writing a new album using Zoom meetings and Dropbox file sharing!
What song from the past is in your mind right now? And what is the meaning that song means to you?
Funny, I’m going to be doing a segment for Rat Salad Review’s YouTube series about King Diamond. Next, we’ll be talking about The Eye. So, I have “It’s The Eye of the Witch” stuck in my head! What is the meaning? It rocks!
How do you feel the Covid-19 virus going to affect the music business in the future?
It’s very hard to say. For one thing, it is already opening up a whole world of live streaming. I think many artists will incorporate live streaming into their performance repertoire, and new interactive platforms (and paywalls) will develop as a result. Hopefully, if artists, labels and the groups that represent them are savvy about it, artists can come out with more control over their content in the long run.
What have you been doing with your self-quarantine?
Like I said, I’ve been co-writing with the guys from Splintered Throne, and though it’s been challenging, it’s born some fruit. I’ve also been finalizing a five song Blues-Americana EP that I should be releasing soon. My husband Allen Markel has some great mics, audio and video software, he’s been filming me for streaming shows, and we’ve been having fun with that. But I’ve also done my share of slagging off! Spending too much time arguing with people on Facebook (no, Bill Gates doesn’t want to inject you with microchips) and mainlining TV shows. I’ve been bummed as some of these show seasons end, and there’s no way for them to film the next season. It sucks that we’ll all have to wait so long to find out what happens to Saul Goodman and Dolores Abernathy!
Lots of people are doing nightly concerts over either YouTube, Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. Are you planning to do something like that?
I’ve been live streaming for about 30-40 minutes on Tuesday afternoons, playing some originals and some live blues. I’ve also participated in some very cool international blues streaming programs, like Can’t Stop the Blues, Blues Radio International, and the UK-based Lockdown Festival. It’s been a wonderful opportunity to reach audiences around the world, reconnect with my UK friends (I’ve done some touring there) and to see other artists I would never have otherwise had the chance to see. I even did some metal karaoke on my own time, and might do that again!
There was an article in the New York Times this week talking about concerts may not start again until fall of 2021. Do you think it could happen?
First, we have to see what happens once things do start opening up, if we have another wave. A pandemic doesn’t grow the way we normally think of things growing- it’s exponential. 12 cases can become 36, then 108, then 324, then 972 and so forth, within days. So, having small gatherings of people is one thing, but jamming them all in a big concert venue is another. It becomes not only a health and moral issue; it becomes a liability issue. What insurance company is going to insure a concert venue or performing artist before there’s a vaccine or proven treatment? Venues and bands need to cover their asses, and not get sued, and do the right thing for our vulnerable citizens, like the grandmas and grandpas concert goers might be going home to after the show. That’s where having strict, agreed upon, and widely complied-with protocols will be needed. And that’s not very conducive to blues dancing, or to a mosh pit! We simply may have to wait it out until there is a vaccine.
How do you see yourself in the next five years?
I’ve read Ari Herstand’s book, and he encourages artists to have a 1 year, 5-year, 10 year, and 26-year plan. I think that’s smart for many, but I sure could not have seen five years ago that I would have created White Crone- The Poisoner. It took me totally by surprise. All I can say is in five years I plan to still be on this side of the dirt. Other than that, I don’t know.
Anything you would like to say in closing?
I’m very grateful to “Metal Twitter” and to all the Facebook and Meetup groups that I’ve encountered as I’ve taken this crazy detour in my career. I’ve met so many wonderful, inspiring and helpful people! I look forward to continuing to branching out, even if it has to be over the internet and airwaves, and I appreciate you for giving this opportunity to share my experiences. Thank you!
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